No problems, WTH. I'd suggest the same thing with the lucrin - take it at night. I didn't know when I was on provera that it was best to take anything that messes with hormones at night, but it does help reduce the side effects! It's another reason why I preferred to inject lucrin (once per day) rather than use synarel (nasal spray, but twice per day). I'm glad you're doing ok with the provera - that drug seriously scares me! The only thing worse for me was the clomid-induced anxiety attacks.
BW
Last edited by butterfly_warrior; September 18th, 2008 at 03:01 PM.
: removing ticker - oops!
I just wanted to give you a quick update on the test results. My u/s results to check if my uterus was normal after a removal of a septum which it is yephee.
DH semen test came back from >30 DNA fragmentation to only 9% which is great he is now in the normal range. My DH took the new conception vitamins for men called Menevit which you can get from your chemist. So Red lady you might want to get some for your DH.
That's amazing, good luck with all this, the test results sound great.
Thanks also for telling me about the Menevit, DH is using the Blackmores Men Performance Ultra but I'll think we better change over to Menevit now. Is your DH also on a diet or is this the only thing he changed?
Baby Aspirin
Was wondering if any of you use something called Baby Aspirin (I think it's Aspririn in very small amounts) - I am in an American Forum and they all seem to use this also heard there were some good studies around this especially to prevent miscarriages.
Sara
Last edited by Sara69; September 20th, 2008 at 06:40 AM.
: Inserted question about baby aspirin
Red Lady, the theory behind the aspirin is that it thins the blood. The two main causes of miscarriage being auto-immune problems and blood clotting problems. The aspirin is used to help prevent the blood clotting too much and causing miscarriage. Your blood tends to clot more in pregnancy normally, and for some women this can become too much. Baby aspirin is a low-dose aspirin tablet (much lower than the dosages used for pain relief) that is also often used for people with heart conditions who need to be wary of clots.
I have also noticed that in the US, IVF clinics tend to use it as standard procedure even when there is no evidence indicating a need for it.
I don't think taking aspirin is going to be a magic-bullet that should be given to everyone. I don't think taking aspirin without being advised to is necessarily a good idea either.
That said... after three miscarriages, my FS sent me for more testing and said everything came back normal. However, he did give us a copy of the actual results, and one of mine was sitting at 1.1, when anything 1.2 or higher was considered to be problematic (too early, can't remember exactly which one it was!). I discussed this with the lady I had been seeing for acupuncture for over a year, and we both decided that adding aspirin into the mix would be a good idea for me. She is of the opinion that my body over-responds to things, and a blood level that would be ok for a "normal" person isn't necessarily ok for me. I took aspirin from my next transfer, without telling my doctor (who doesn't really believe in treating things on the off-chance, only if there is overwhelming evidence - I decided my three previous miscarriages were overwhelming enough for me!), and was lucky enough to have that transfer work... At my first consultation with my OB, we talked about my history and the medications I was on, and she had absolutely no issues with me being on aspirin after hearing about the circumstances surrounding my miscarriages. It was a situation where one doctor would, one doctor wouldn't... Sometimes you have to make the medical decisions for yourself, but I certainly wouldn't jump in and take it without some sort of evidence to support it. It may be a commonly used drug that's available over the counter, but it's not without its problems and side effects.
Excuse me for butting in, but I am a patient of Dr S with NK issues who might be able to help.
Firstly, can I say - Butterfly Warrior - I am thrilled to see you are at 21 weeks! Congratulations!
WTH, I suffer from RPL and I am a patient of Dr S. When I had the NK blood test it came back borderline high, just like yours. Dr S recommended that I have the uterine biopsy to check for uterine NK cells, and sure enough, we discovered that they were present there. He believes that is the cause of my m/c's. I would strongly recommend having that test.
Anyway, just wanted to share in case it helps anyone out there and wish you good luck.
Hi WTH,
"I have been tossing around the two embryo idea, too, though we have been advised against it. My fear is that if I had two put in, and one was of a poorer quality, that both may MC"
- that seems a reasonable concern, especially since you are having the PGD to reduce the chances of MC in the first place.
Hope it's all still progressing reasonably happily
hugs
Kate
I found the opposite with some of the hormones, in particular the Crinone (progesterone after transfer). If I used it at night I had incredible nightmares and couldn't sleep, so I changed to mornings and it was much better.
I looked up baby aspirin on a US online drugstore website - it's an 81mg dose of aspirin. don't know how this differs from what is for sale in Aus. PS - I'm not a dr! and don't know how much you want to rely on my googling abilities...but that is what I found
Thank you Butterfly Warrior for explaining this and sharing your story. It's exiting that it looks like it worked for you. I completely agree with you that I only trust my doctor up to a limit and that you are responsible for your own treatment.
Thank you buleij have followed your example and found a few links as well
WOW - this is becoming a really interesting thread!
Butterfly Warrior - Yay - I have finished the Provera, which is a relief, because combined with the Lucrin which I started on Friday I have been super dopey and sleepy. Now anxiously awaiting AF so we can get on with the FSH. Yep, am doing Lucrin at night. Have never given myself an injection before. Did really well first-time at the clinic, but it hurt when I tried again the next night. Also super-paranoid about bubbles.
TAM - that is an amazing improvement in DH's swimmers! Does this mean you are going to ttc again naturally?
Redlady - Hi. I have done a lot of research into the aspirin. I used it to successfully conceive earlier this year, as it is said to improve bloodflow to the uterus. In fact, I think I read one of the Melbourne IVF clinics uses it as a part of their protocol. However, that is the one pregnancy I have had that had an unexplained miscarriage (my other two were chromosonal issues). My OB is dead against it, unless you have been diagnosed with a clotting issue. He said he believes it can stop the embryo from implanting properly. I will never know if that was the reason for my March loss. But I won't risk it again. Don't mean to harp on about it - just sharing info.
Scarlet. Hi there. I PM'ed you last night and hope to hear from you
KMN - thanks for you input about the two embryo option. Thanks for the tip about the Crinone. The concept of using it after transfer seems so far away ATM. Worried I won't even get a decent number of follies or anything suitable for transfer!
buliej - the smallest dose of aspirin to buy in Australia is Cartia. It is a 100mg. It also has a special coating on it so it is absorbed better by the stomach then your regular aspirin. And the recommended dose is less, as you say.
WTH, you'll get the hang of the injections really quick! As for ways to reduce them stinging... I found it better for me to stretch the skin taught and flat rather than pinch some up like the nurses say - personal preference, I think. Just remember, needle in fast (quick jab after getting yourself lined up) and push the drug in slowly... I also found it better to take the needle out slowly, being careful to make sure it stayed at the same angle as it went in - helped reduce bruising.
When it comes to bubbles... because they are sub-cutaneous injections, they don't really matter. The nurses just told me that it may cause it to sting a bit more, but the bubbles are only a real issue when injecting into muscle, or directely into a vein. You'll also find that the more nervous and tense you are (and the more you hold your breath!) the more they will hurt. I took a leaf out of my acupuncture lady's book - she would get me to take a deep breath in then out, and would insert the acupuncture needles on the exhale. I did all my injections the same way, and it does help a bit (as opposed to ones that nurses have done and caught me by surprise or whatever!)
I haven't been posting but keenly watching this thread as we will prob be doing IVF/PGD whenever I have finally recovered from this last pg.
Just thought I would make a comment re asprin.
After my firt 2 m/cs and nothing showing up on any tests, my FS decided to put me onto clexane (blood thinner) which was started from the time of ovulation . The next pg resulted in my DS. There is also a theory of this helping with implantation (and hopefully reduding risk of m/c)
I asked about asprin at the time and my FS said there were studies showing that asprin taken prior to 6ish weeks could have a negative impact on implantation rates. She was not keen on using it early on at all. Would have started it after HB seen if i had had a diagnosed clotting issue.
My memory is a little fuzzy atm but i do recollect reading a paper on effects of asprin and IVF on the Monash IVF website. This was few yrs ago though so not sure if will still be there.
This thread is becoming interesting. Maybe we should consider asking having it as a forum in maybe the long term assisted or the miscarriage section so it is easier for people to find and join in.
Anyway redlady My DH didn't really change his diet he did eat approx 2 - 3 pieces of fruit a day mainly just an apple and a Mandarin and I would make a fruit salad once a week that lasted around 3 days. I just used, strawberries, watermelon, pineapple and rock melon. We tried to increase our exercise by just taking the dogs for a longer walk and more frequent prob about 4 x a week. So nothing major, I say it was those vitamins. If you go onto the menevit website it explains everything about it including a little video to help explain what it actually does.
WTH Yeah DH and I have been given the all clear to ttc naturally on our own again. I am halfway through my cycle but I dont feel like I have ovulated yet. I wear a watch its called ov watch which you wear whilst you are sleeping and it tells you up to 4 days in advanced when you are going to ovulate and it says I have ovulated. I brought the watch after ttc for 6 months with no luck. The month I wore the watch I feel pg but miscarried so I will see how I go. Next month FS has but me on clomid from days 2 -6 only 25mg to try and regulate my cycle and help me ovulate earlier as my cycles are 37 days long. I have also been going to acupuncture to try and regulate my cycles so I will see if it has improved my cycle length any.
Aspirin Well this is very interesting as my BT showed I have slightly above normal blood clotting (dont recall the technical terminology) and the FS at SIVF said not to worry about it. However I do and when I got home I googeld it to see what I could find and found all these sights about baby aspirin so I thought well it cant hurt I have already had 2 m/c and dont want another one so I emailed my FS and asked him if I could take a small dose just in case and this is the email he sent me back.
We (Sydney IVF) still have concerns about using aspirin in early part (1st trimester) of conception, when prostaglandins (which will also be selectively block by aspirin) play heavy role in implantation and the adult vessel types (what aspirin suppose to act on) are not formed yet till second trimester (12 weeks ? we do use aspirin in such patient but only start in second trimester).
Attached is a study which fuels our concerns that in women who took aspirin or equivalent in early part are found to have higher miscarriage rates (copy enclosed). In all studies showing aspirin has a positive effect, it was used in combination with heparin and none of the study using aspirin alone has demonstrated convincing results. So in women with significant anticardiolipin antibodies and adverse pregnancy outcomes, we use heparin and may switch to aspirin when they enter their second trimester.
Sorry I am no good with computers. I do know how to send attachments via email but not sure how to do it on this thread. If you would like to tread the studies PM with your email address and I will send it to you that way.
BW - I am excited to announce that I am vastly improving at the injections. Just wondering, wondering, wondering how long AF will take now I have stopped the 7 days of Provera. My IVF nurse says if it does not come by this Friday, I will have to wait until the following Friday to start FSH. I think I will go nuts! I have been googling, googling, googling how long it takes for AF to come after the Provera and it seems very varied! Thanks for the info about the bubbles!
Meredith - yep - that coincides with what my OB said. Recommended against aspirin to ttc, and where it is used for blood clotting, he believes it should be used with Clexane/heparin (dunno if they are the same thing).
Tam - ditto your advice from your FS. My OB is with SIVF and said the same thing
Pineapple - I think someone was talking about pineapple recently? I looked into this and it is the pineapple CORE that is really good for DH/DP's swimmers. I imagine it is used in pineapple juice, so that is our juice of choice at our's.
Also good for sperm motility are brazil nuts - makes the little guys swim well. DH eats 8 each night after work. Apparently that is the minimum number...
WTH After my operation FS had me on provera and my periods started the third day after stopping the last tablet. Just thought I would let you know my experience from using it.
Hi ladies, just bought DH Menevit yesterday and hopefully he will remember to take it...
Tam, how long did your DH take the Menevit before the test? I am so glad you've got the good result.
DH is due to test his sperm DNA this Friday (yes, he postponed it) and I am kind of anxious to know the result. I doubt Menevit will kick in yet to influence the result...
WTH, what a good advice about pineapple and brazil nuts, I am onto them right now..
Also about delayed AF in IVF, it is very common especially when it is your 1st cycle. I remember how it drove me crazy in my 1st cycle, it was 5 days later comparing to my normal cycle (33 day cycle oppose to normal 28 days), which means 12 days lucrin injection in total since day 21, ouch.
Try not to be too anxious, just relax and it will turn up when you least expected. Here is hoping that AF will visit soon...
WTH - I get AF about day 3 after stopping provera too but I know it can be up to 7 days. How exciting to be almost at FSH stage - it will all go very quickly after that!
We have 99% decided to go the same path with PGD. We had no confirmation that last m/c was genetic ( one twin was normal but no result on the other) and given I've had positive to the NK cell test, we might not actually "need" the PGD. However, I have said to myself that our next try i do not want any regrets. I am feeling the age factor and just can't face another loss without knowing we did everything we could to get a baby into this world. I've done 6 rounds of OI/IUI so the step to IVF doesn't phase me at all. DH is a bit concerned about the cost factor so at this stage we have only agreed on one go at PGD.... praying it works!!
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Congratulations!
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