How many times without changes?

[CeCe]

Hi all,

Yesterday I had my 5th . We have had one success, only to miscarry at 7 weeks. That was our 2nd cycle early last year. So a further 1 full cycle and 2 FETs have not brought us an luck. I understand for some of you this may still be small compared to how many transfers you have so I'm trying not to be self indulgent - I just need advice of others in my current emotional state. My other issue is DH is reluctant to keep going without something else being tried.

Up until now the only changes to cycles were an increase in puregon with each cycle. I have been seeing an accupuncturist for almost a year. I spoke to my FS this morning and he has orderd blood tests to look at immunity and blood clotting issues which apparently can develop over time (?). TBH I don't recall these being done before (my first FS who did initial testing retired) so perhaps it may reveal something new...

I'm not ready to give up on my dream of being a Mum. I go to work each day only as something to do until I become a Mum. I'm not sure what else can be done or what questions to ask the FS about what to do next if the blood tests don't show anything new. How do I convince DH, who is a facts man, that it is just a numbers game and it is worthwhile just to keep trying as we have been (if it is?).

We have been doing down reg cycles. Do flare cycles potentially change the outcome or i it just a shorter cycle? Do you insist on changes after each cycle or a number of cycles or just like a 'traditional' conception trust that one month will be the one and it's up to nature when that is?

Thanks for listening to my whinge. I'm really struggling at the moment.

[Sara69]

Hi Cece,

Sorry to hear you had bad news.

I can't really help as I am new to IVF. The only thing I think is that if you have doubts your FS is doing the right thing by you it may be a good idea to get a second opinion, maybe even to change clinics depending on if that is possible where you're located. The girls here on this site seem to have a wealth of experience about good places to go to.

Wishing all the best for you,

Sara

[farmgirl77]

I'm so sorry that you are feeling this way, but after all that you have gone through it is very understandable.

I wish that I had some answers - but I dont. I know that in talking to the councillors at our clinic, they have said that anything up to 8-10 transfers before a BFP is normall - easy for them to say, but that is very hard to take if you are the one getting your hopes up each time and then facing the sadness of each loss!

I think that asking your fs to do some further investigation is a good idea - and it is something that i am thinking about if our next transfer (which will be our 5th as well) is not succesful.

As for your dh, i'm not sure what you can do there. i guess it is a matter of keeping talking so he understands how important this is to you, and to both of you. maybe you could go back to councillor and discuss how things are going...i dont know if that would help you both.

i wish that there was more that i could say to help, but i understand how hard it is at the moment so is about the best i can offer. i'm sure that you wil get your beautiful baby soon - it just might take a little bit longer than you hope.

take care and good luck
fg

[Cuddlepie]

I agree with FG, definitely insist on doing further investigations with your FS. And I am speaking with my experience and I couldn't feel more strongly about this than now.

We have been trying for 5 years now, 2 stim cycle fresh transfer, 2 FET. One pregnancy but a missed m/c at 8.5 weeks. We have always been told there is nothing wrong with us - 'unexplained infertility' it is. Only until last week, after the 2nd FET I insisted on testing DH's sperm DNA and that came back 30, which is a boradline of being infertile. We have now taking measures to improved this. But the silver lining for us is, at least now, we know what's wrong with us, there is nothing is unexplained, things happen for a reason. That also explained why I m/ced for my first pregnancy.

I have to say I am like your DH, I am a fact man (woman), I can't be doing cycle after cycle failed but not asking questions. There is a 'chance/luck' factor, but when the numbers stacking up, there is a time to ask more questions. I now have been kicking myself why this hasn't been done earlier and I just don't want that happen to you.

I hope you will soon find some answers, I always think that finding out something wrong is not a bad news but a begining to achiving your goal, at least you know what you are dealing with rather than flying blind.

Very best of luck!

[CeCe]

Thank you for all your responses and support - it really does mean a lot to me.

Today I had blood tests today for various things - anti thyroid, auto-antibody and a few other things which I cannot read on the pathology request. It took about 10 viles of blood to cover all the tests, so I'm really praying something comes of it. As you said Cuddlepie, if they do find something I'm hoping that will lead to a different path so in the end it will be good news.

The tests take about 4-5 days to complete so hopefully I'll be able to think about other things during the week and not stress too much.

Yep, DH and I have to talk but I get so nervous that he'll not want to continue. He does want to be a father but I guess he feels he could find other things to fill the gap where as I don't.

[Muppity]

Hi Cece

I don't know how much comfort it is but my FS told me that they start to think about changing regimes (unless there is some obvious reason to change them earlier) after using all the embies from three complete stimulation cycles (so with icicles this could be quite a few cycles). This would pretty much correspond with what FG said about being told that 8-10 transfers are normal.

I totally understand what you are saying about your DH. Mine is currently referring to our FS as "the Charletan" and can't understand why they build it up then have no answers when it doesn't work. There is no explaining to him that no matter how good an embie looked that is no guarantee that it will work. I hope that my DH will come around to my way of thinking - and I hope that yours does too.

[dusty]

Hi Ce

I hear your frustration and pain. I am sorry that #5 wasn't it for you. As you know I can relate to this path and am glad you are venting it out and looking for some answers. Re the immunity issues, there appears to be two school of thoughts in my experience. Those FS who think their may be a link and those that are not convinced of any evidence of a discernable difference. Drs like Dr Sacks in Sydney do numerous tests and can prescribe treatments to overcome any possible immunity problems. Then there is mine who is the opposite end of the scale. After over 30 years in the industry he says there is no evidence to show causal link. If your FS is happy to entertain you having tests and possible ways forward then grasp it and go for it.

Like the others have said there is much evidence that numerous ETs are needed on average for a successful BFP. Perfectly healthy women have taken many go(s) to get there. That is what I hold onto. That sticky one is just around the corner. Unfortunately some of us just don't have that many embies (if any) after a stim so instead of having back up of frozens we need to stim time and time again to get as many ETs as we can to improve our chances.

On the different cycles, it depends on how you respond to your down reg. My system shut off on a down reg but I faired much better on a flare/boost cycle. It is a much less stable cycle (I had one cancelled because I probably O'd after only a couple of days on the stims) but can help women with hormonal issues or premature ovarian failure. The antagonist is the other type of cycle to try. It really depends what your FS thinks you may best respond to, but I would say after a couple of go(s) you are entitled to discuss a different approach/try to your treatment.

Wishing you lots of luck. Perhaps we should have another Canberra catch up soon when you feel up to it.
Also thanks for your message in my journal. I really appreciate it.
xx

[CeCe]

Thanks for the information and support Dusty.

Blood was taken the other day so now I'm just waiting and crazily hoping that something is abnormal which may provide some answers. I think it's the only time I've wished that on a blood test

The rational part of me has accepted DH's stance and I guess (pending outcomes of blood tests) am glad he's forced this investigation but the emotional, maternal part of me just wants to keep trying for that positive result even if the blood tests don't come back with anything. Some one once said in a post it's like rolling a dice and seeing how many times it takes to roll a 6. I'm so tempted to find a dice and roll it ....

[slovebaby]

I agree with Cuddlepie, everything has a reason...like us, I only had one pregnancy during these 5 years and ended up with M/C, we couldn't get an answer untill now we got the result that DH's sperm DNA is 28%, we are trying to improve this too... Cuddlepie, is it getting improved yet? how do you get improve this?

I hope you will find some answers too...Good Luck!